Curse

Darko_UK · Jul 07, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I think it a good idea and doesn't even effect your ability to make gold.

Loot scaling was made so that the most common way of making money takes even longer. The main gold income from solo farming places like the desert is all the white drops which sell for 50gp each, Along with gp drops. Now it takes 8x longer. Not much difference noooo

Darko_UK · Jul 07, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinsoul

Completely and totally /unsigned. I may be in the minority here, but I HATE solo farming... Only time I did it was after I decided I wanted a Colossal Scimitar to use on my monk, and that bored the hell out of me. Loot scaling puts people with the time and desire to solo farm for hours on end on the same level with casual players, and that's the way GW should be.

So like if i max out my treasure hunter title then it should reset cuz lyk that way ZOMG everyone is equal again? r tard

freekedoutfish · Jul 07, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko_UK

Loot scaling was made so that the most common way of making money takes even longer. The main gold income from solo farming places like the desert is all the white drops which sell for 50gp each, Along with gp drops. Now it takes 8x longer. Not much difference noooo

So your telling me its completely impossible to make gold ingame with loot scaling inplace?

Its impossible to make enough gold to live, buy armor, weapons, dye and other equipment and materials?

Thats its just sheer impossible to make at all, even for expensive items.

If thats so, then explain to me how I went from having zero gold, and then managed to buy 5k vabbian ele armor in about a month. All I used was gold I made from questing, and missions, bad trading and the odd vanquishing.

I sold everything that dropped to the merchant and amazingly...

...I managed to afford the second most expensive armor ingame within a month! Explain that to me! Im not a farmer or an expert trader or an expert at making gold.

I might be a long standing player, but ive never been great at selling items. Yet I managed!

Loot scaling has not crippled the ability to make gold, or enough to live on.

The only people it has effected are those players who want to be "rich" and have more then they need to survive. So forgive me if I dont have sympathy for a player who is just trying to be oober rich and lord it over everyone else.

Risa · Jul 07, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Arguing over stupid things is fun, so I might as well join in.

I'm very much against loot scaling.

Arguement #1 - While many have pointed out that the prices of many items accross players and traders have dropped, they have certainly not dropped 700% to make up for the roughly 1/8 of the drops a solo farmer may be getting.

Arguement #2 - You can't force people to be social. I don't see why any of the players here should be able to say that playing in a group is how things should be done. Nor should a player have to interact with others to sell items. If a player wants to solo & make more cash, it will generally be slower than a group of 8 farming the same area, even with a farming build. That lone player should make the same amount as that group of 8 would. Bleh, this arguement was no warrant. It's more likely than not that the general opinion that governs the world of Guild Wars is that "Group playing is how things should be done in an MMO." Though I'm all for going it alone. xD

Arguement #3 - If someone wants to devote his time on Guild Wars to accumulating large sums of money, why exactly shouldn't he? Is it something with morals or whatnot? Similar to my previous arguement, why is it that someone using a lazy enchantment-filled build should not become rich? He's not progressing on his storyline, or making any companions in Guild Wars. That's the drawback to this playing style. Should the guy going through the missions with his guildies be making the same amount as the farmer? Shouldn't that be the drawback to that choice of playing style? Gaining less money?

& to a previous poster that suggested sending a game administrator to a farming location and start banning anyone farming there...Actually, I don't really have a message to you in paticular. I'd just like to say that there are humans farming those locations as well. I, myself farm in tatts on my monk.

Again, if its decided that playing in groups is how things "should" be done, then stating your opinion doesn't really matter if your against it. It's like you saying to your government that mass murder is acceptable because your opinion is that it should be. I posted here knowing it wouldn't really have any impact. I posted this knowing another person would come in counter everything I said. I also posted because it's my own opinion... :/

But I'm all for farming! Here's to it!

Risa · Jul 07, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Does no one actually play this game for the sheer joy of playing the storyline, or competeing against other players?

You all seem pre-occupied with making gold and farming items. Gold and wealth is not the be-all and end-all of this game, there is a storyline, missions and quests there you know.

Yes, and that's an enjoyable part of the game. One who devotes more time to solo farming is losing out on the joy of the storyline, and playing with others. Is that not enough? A solo farmer is losing out on certain aspects of the game, while a party player is currently recieving no less gold than a solo farmer, and still is enjoying the other aspects of the game. What is the exact reason a solo farmer should be making the same money as the party-player, when he's already missing out on the things others enjoy?

Omniclasm · Jul 07, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risa

Yes, and that's an enjoyable part of the game. One who devotes more time to solo farming is losing out on the joy of the storyline, and playing with others. Is that not enough? A solo farmer is losing out on certain aspects of the game, while a party player is currently recieving no less gold than a solo farmer, and still is enjoying the other aspects of the game. What is the exact reason a solo farmer should be making the same money as the party-player, when he's already missing out on the things others enjoy?

Encouraging "an enjoyable part of the game" is a bad thing how?

You make it sound like the solo farmer is losing out on so much enjoyment by solo farming. Why do they play the game if they are making it like a 9 to 5 job?

That must mean that they enjoy solo farming, just like the other people enjoy playing with a team. Why should one make more than another?

Willow O Whisper · Jul 08, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

I think ANET went the wrong direction. Rather than punishing solo-farmers with loot scaling, why not reverse the strategy and reward grouping by increasing drop rates for partied players? In other words, why not simply reward group players as opposed to punishing solo play? This was a pretty successful strategy in another MMORPG I used to play. The increased item supply along with hard mode will still keep item prices low while still curtailing gold-sale generation since gold will also be plentiful. However, this strategy allows casual players to be able to afford 15k and other vanity armors, unlike the present set-up.

Loot scaling can work if used as a bonus instead of a penalty.

hey i like ur idea beacuse it rewards the causal player for going into a party + it doesen't hurt the farmer in this way everyone is happy.

lord_shar · Jul 08, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willow O Whisper

hey i like ur idea beacuse it rewards the causal player for going into a party + it doesen't hurt the farmer in this way everyone is happy.

Yeah, the best part about the proposed reversed loot scaling (giving human parties bonuses instead of penalizing solo-farmers) is that it holds back no one. Soloers can still solo all they want, but party players would get an income-boost just for playing the game normally. Either way, both sides win.

Omniclasm · Jul 08, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Yeah, the best part about the proposed reversed loot scaling (giving human parties bonuses instead of penalizing solo-farmers) is that it holds back no one. Soloers can still solo all they want, but party players would get an income-boost just for playing the game normally. Either way, both sides win.

Solo'ers would still whine like hell. They seem to think since soloing is soooo difficult they should get WAY more drops than people who chose to play the game differently.

reetkever · Jul 08, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

/signed

loot scaling is the dumbest idea A-net ever had, since it doesn't make anything better and doesn't reward anyone. It just tomes things down and only punishes certain classes of players.

And all the reasons A-Net had to install the scaling are dumb and proven that it doesn't work. Prices are NOT going down to being affordable. Bots are STILL alive. Rich people STAY rich. Poor people STAY poor. Avarage players go from avarage to POOR. A-net's pride seems to be in the way of repairing this, however...

However, I can't see bots buying this expansion, cause it forces them to first beat the game, and then find a good farm spot. They could use the cash on another Prophecies, instead.

lord_shar · Jul 08, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

Solo'ers would still whine like hell. They seem to think since soloing is soooo difficult they should get WAY more drops than people who chose to play the game differently.

I play both sides of the isle: I solo when I want fast-plat, and party when guildies and friends need help. Even now, I generate more plat than any casual player I know under the present system. However, the present loot scaling system is based on extreme prejudice. There is absolutely no reason to punish those who prefer to play the game their way if it doesn't harm others. However, ANET can easily reward players who follow their intended cooperative party system with increased loot drops.

No matter how loot is generated and distributed, there will always be enterprising go-getters who will outproduce the rest of the population. So rather than letting envy dictate policy, why not give the general partying populace a boost?

Omniclasm · Jul 08, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

I suggested something like that earlier, but its more of a 50/50. Soloing takes less of a hit, and party playing gains less of a bonus compared to yours. You suggest 700% increase to current drops, while I said 200%. However, we do both agree that from where it is stood right now, everything could receive a boost and be happy? And I have confused myself, so this probably doesn't make much sense.

lord_shar · Jul 08, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

I suggested something like that earlier, but its more of a 50/50. Soloing takes less of a hit, and party playing gains less of a bonus compared to yours. You suggest 700% increase to current drops, while I said 200%. However, we do both agree that from where it is stood right now, everything could receive a boost and be happy? And I have confused myself, so this probably doesn't make much sense.

The above sounds acceptable. However, in the present patch, soloers are only seeing 12.5% of normal drops, while full parties members see 100%, all for executing the same number of monsters.

If any employer tried "salary scaling" with their employees in the real world, their workers would riot. I know GW is just a game, but the principle behind loot scaling is nothing short of reprehensible. Equal pay for equal work would be nice, but I guess it doesn't apply in ANET's world...

reetkever · Jul 08, 2007, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Or they can just change the scaling to normal, and give bonusses to the drops in 8-man parties.

How about 800 gold dropping in a party of 8, and only 100 gold in a party of 1.

Of course, the area you are in can change this amount, but it will make both party and solo happy. Maybe give normal monsters the ability to drop 2 or 3 items like bosses do in a party.

This way, the party still gets more loot, but the people farming or being forced to farm can get their needed stuff like skills, armor and cool stuff like buying tickets for rings, buying keys for double-chance-on-rare-loot-from-a-chest-weekend etc.

As for the 'prices rising'... Look at the prices now. A casual player STILL can't afford most of the stuff. Things are STILL 100K + ecto. THe price going up doesn't affect the casual players. It does affect the farmers, but hey, they get way more loot so can afford the weapons after a while.

Omniclasm · Jul 08, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

The above sounds acceptable. However, in the present patch, soloers are only seeing 12.5% of normal drops, while full parties members see 100%, all for executing the same number of monsters.

If any employer tried "salary scaling" with their employees in the real world, their workers would riot. I know GW is just a game, but the principle behind loot scaling is nothing short of reprehensible. Equal pay for equal work would be nice, but I guess it doesn't apply in ANET's world...

Individuals in a party only see 12.5% of the drops, the same as a solo farmer.
I suggested each getting 25% of the drops.

Salary scaling would probably please more people than upset.

Edit: About the equal pay equal work, if that was the case, solo farmers would get about 3-4% of the drops.

cR4zY-n^ · Jul 08, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Drops should simply NOT HAPPEN once player enters area alone? xD~

Willow O Whisper · Jul 08, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cR4zY-n^

Drops should simply NOT HAPPEN once player enters area alone? xD~

Ur Name says it all......

lord_shar · Jul 08, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

Individuals in a party only see 12.5% of the drops, the same as a solo farmer.
I suggested each getting 25% of the drops.

That's because each party member in a group of 8 only averages 12.5% of total kills, while the solo farmer outputs 100% of the total mob kills.

I agree that individuals in an 8-man should receive more than 12.5% total loot to encourage group play. This is where ANET is in a position to reward instead of punish.

"A carrot usually works much better than a stick..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

Salary scaling would probably please more people than upset.

Collectively yes, but the above also promotes lower individual worker output, which long-term is bad for any business trying to compete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

Edit: About the equal pay equal work, if that was the case, solo farmers would get about 3-4% of the drops.

This flies in the face of all modern industry-metrics.

Consider two groups: A) a soloer that kills 100 monsters and B) a full party of 8 that kills 100 monsters. Which one has the higher total measurable output, and why?

Omniclasm · Jul 08, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

This flies in the face of all modern industry-metrics.

Consider two groups: A) a soloer that kills 100 monsters and B) a full party of 8 that kills 100 monsters. Which one has the higher total measurable output, and why?

This depends, are we basing it on work force put in, or work force put out? A solo'er does very little "work" but kills a lot of things. Someone in a party actually puts in more "work" but gets less done.

I know in the real world that people care about getting things done, so they pay you to get things done, the faster the better.

However, this is a video game. NOBODY cares if John The Farmer goes out and kills 100 monsters. Killing monsters, the work output, is irrelevant since nobody cares. So the only thing left to compare it to is the work input, which a solo farmer really lacks.

lord_shar · Jul 08, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

This depends, are we basing it on work force put in, or work force put out? A solo'er does very little "work" but kills a lot of things. Someone in a party actually puts in more "work" but gets less done.

I know in the real world that people care about getting things done, so they pay you to get things done, the faster the better.

However, this is a video game. NOBODY cares if John The Farmer goes out and kills 100 monsters. Killing monsters, the work output, is irrelevant since nobody cares. So the only thing left to compare it to is the work input, which a solo farmer really lacks.

I believe you are confusing effort with productivity. Productivity isn't measured by effort -- it is measured by tangible results. Working intelligently is often more productive than simply working hard. But back to the game...

GW is a game, and its objective is to provide players entertainment. However, different players derive entertainment in different ways. Some prefer PvE missions, while other prefer PVP or resource-gathering. Regardless of what players prefer, ANET should not punish any one group for their play style preference so long as they stay within the EULA. ANET can add additional incentives and rewards to those who follow their "ideal" player mold, but why should they take away anything from any one group for using the product they've already purchased?

It's times like these that I wonder if ANET's developers are deliberately trying to sabotage their flagship title...